Open
Close

If the Cardinals Want Giancarlo Stanton, Go Get Him. No Excuses.

If the Miami Marlins are truly willing to trade Giancarlo Stanton, the Cardinals have to go deep and get it done. They can’t take a timid swing … and miss. They have to swing for the fences.

If Stanton is moved this offseason, there would be only one acceptable excuse: if Stanton refused to waive his no-trade clause to block a trade to St. Louis. But even then, the Cardinals need to at least try to make a winning pitch. They have to go all-out to persuade Stanton to change his mind.

After all, Stanton has played eight seasons in the majors, breaking in with the Marlins in 2010.  And despite his individual excellence, Stanton has never appeared in a MLB postseason game. Over the past eight years 26 of the 30 teams made at least one trip to the playoffs. The only four franchises to go 0-for-8 were Miami, Seattle, San Diego and the Chicago White Sox.

Detroit ace Justin Verlander was initially unwilling to waive his no-trade protection and approve of a deal that would arm Houston for a run in the AL playoffs. In the final minutes before the Aug. 31 trade deadline, Verlander realized it would mean a lot to him to have another shot at winning a World Series. Verlander had gotten one crack at it before, in 2006, but the Tigers slipped and flopped. The Cardinals beat them in a five-game World Series.

Verlander decided to go for the ring. He signed off on the trade. The Astros won their first World Series. Verlander won his first World Series. He got the ring. All by keeping an open mind, searching his conscience. He reached a conclusion: a baseball player — if he’s lucky — will have only so many opportunities to win a world championship. Verlander was 34. If he said no to Houston, would he one day come to regret his stubborn resistance? Verlander made the right choice. He will have no regrets in later in life.

If winning really matters to Stanton, then he would agree to a trade that would put him with  one of the most successful franchises in baseball history. The Cardinals didn’t win their first World Series until 1926. But beginning with that ’26 season, the New York Yankees are the only team that’s won more more regular-season games, postseason games and World Series titles than the Cardinals.

Perhaps Stanton will be acquired by another prestigious franchise that can help him win a World Series ring. But if the Cardinals are the only elite franchise to strike a deal with Miami, I don’t know why Stanton would refuse to play for a organization that has the most regular-season victories, and most postseason wins among NL teams since 2000 … with four NL pennants and two World Series championships.

Assuming that winning is a priority for Stanton, then he’d  form a strong partnership with the Cardinals. They can help Stanton become a winner. And Stanton can help the Cardinals become a winner, again, after a two-season absence from the postseason. The Cardinals are close, having posted the ninth-best winning percentage in the majors over the past two seasons.

It was absolutely disappointing for a proud St. Louis franchise to miss the postseason in 2016 and 2017, but the Cardinals didn’t crater. They just couldn’t keep pace with the Cubs. Going into 2018, the Cardinals need a push, a lift, a boost. The Cards need a prominent talent (and other accessories) to make a difference, and provide substantial assistance in raising their victory total above 90.

And Stanton is strong enough to do the job.

The Cardinals haven’t had a player of clout play right field for them since Carlos Beltran spent two happy, prosperous years here in 2012 and 2013. According to the succession plan, the Cardinals would promote top prospect Oscar Taveras to the big club in 2014, after Beltran departed St. Louis via free agency. The rookie Taveras made 220 plate appearances as the Cards’ right fielder in 2014, but died in a single-car accident in his native Dominican Republic on Oct. 26, only 10 days after the team was eliminated by San Francisco in the NL Championship Series.

The Cardinals attempted to fill the right-field void by trading for Atlanta’s Jason Heyward, but he bolted to the Cubs as a free agent after one season. Since the start of the 2016 season, we’ve seen a procession of rightfielders that included Stephen Piscotty, Randal Grichuk, Brandon Moss, Jose Martinez, Jeremy Hazelbaker.

But let’s dial it back to the post-Beltran transition. Let’s look at how the Cardinals’ collection of rightfielders have done as a group in comparison to Stanton over the past four seasons, 2014 through 2017.

This little study is quite revealing.

By the way, the numbers for Stanton represent his production when he plays right field — and no other position. But unless Stanton is serving as a DH in an American League Park, or is pinch-hitting, he’s always in right field.

1. PARK ADJUSTED RUNS CREATED

Cardinals RF group: only 2 percent above leave average; 20th in the majors.

Stanton:  a big 49 percent above league average; No. 1 among MLB rightfielders.

2. ISOLATED POWER 

Cardinals RF group:  ISO of .160;  14 points  below league average; 21st.

Stanton: ISO of .303; a whopping 129 points above the league rate; No. 1.

3. WINS ABOVE REPLACEMENT 

Cardinals RF group:  8.6 WAR,  ranked 17th

Stanton: 19.0 WAR, ranked No. 3 at the position in MLB.

4. ONBASE PERCENTAGE 

Cardinals RF group:  .328,  ranked 18th.

Stanton:  .367, ranked No. 2  at position; 39 points higher than St. Louis.

5. SLUGGING PERCENTAGE

Cardinals RF group:  .423, ranked 18th.

Stanton:  .574 ranked No. 2 in bigs; 151 points better than St. Louis.

6. ONBASE + SLUGGING 

Cards RF group:  .751 OPS, ranked 18th

Stanton: .941 OPS, ranked No. 2 at position; 190 points higher than St. Louis.

7. HOME RUNS 

Cards RF group: 78 homers, ranked 21st.

Stanton: 146 homers, 150 homers, ranked No. 1 at position.

— Footnote I: Stanton has a .607 slugging pct. and has homered every 12 at-bats in the Marlins’ new ballpark, which opened in 2012. According to Baseball Reference, the Miami park gives pitchers a significant edge over hitters.

— Footnote II: this one made me laugh, but in a good way. Since the start of 2014, Stanton has bashed 68 more homers than the Cardinals’ RF contingent. There’s more to it: Stanton hit 68 more homers than the Cards’ RF bunch despite having 733 fewer at-bats over the same time because of games lost to injury. That’s sick.

8. HOME-RUN RATIO 

Cards RF group:  a homer every 32.05 at-bats, ranked 21st.

Stanton:  a home run every 12.10 at-bats, best among all MLB hitters.

9. RBI RATIO

Cards RF group: an RBI every 8.36 at-bats, ranked 22nd.

Stanton: an RBI every 4.85 at-bats; that’s No. 1.

10. DEFENSIVE RUNS SAVED

Cards RF group:  + 27 Defensive Runs Saved.

Stanton in RF:  +29 Defensive Runs Saved.

Footnote I: the Cardinals’ total was inflated by Heyward’s one season here; he was a +21 DRS in 2015, the best at his position. So in the other three seasons, Cards’ rightfielders were +6 DRS … well below Stanton’s level defensively.

Footnote II: In his eight MLB seasons in right field, Stanton is an impressive +45 in DRS and he has finished in the top 10 in the RF position rankings six of the eight seasons.

Look, I think we can see the obvious.

Stanton is vastly superior to anyone that’s played right field for the Cardinals for a very long time. In his big-league career he has 34.1 WAR, and that’s the most among MLB right fielders since 2010. Various Cardinals’ right fielders have given the team 25.4 WAR there since 2010. Stanton has averaged 4.1 WAR per season in right. Since 2010, only one Cardinals’ right fielder, Lance Berkman in 2011, has had a single-season WAR (4.8) that’s higher than Stanton’s average.

Add in his fantastic defense, and it’s a no-contest.

Stanton is an intimidating power bat that draws walks, delivers RBIs on frequent basis, is far above the league average in park-adjusted runs created, and is among the very best defenders in right field.

Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. has said it many times: the team needs a big bat for the middle lineup.

Cards president of baseball operations John Mozeliak has said it many times: it’s a priority to find a middle-lineup power hitter.

GM Michael Girsch has said the same thing … repeatedly.

Well, Stanton is that bat. You cannot find a more ruthless power in the game today.

And if the Cardinals have in fact made a trade offer to Miami — as reported — then they have determined that Stanton is the right guy to fill the void.

Stanton is owed $295 million through 2027 … and Cardinals are rolling in revenue; they are in superb shape financially and have payroll flexibility into the future.

The Marlins want to slash payroll and will take prospects in exchange for Stanton; the Cardinals have an abundance of young pitching prospects that are attractive trade pieces… and young outfield prospects to offer as well.

If the Cardinals covet Stanton, then they need to close the deal and see if he’ll waive the no-trade.

To get Stanton a team needs two things: Lots of money … and lots of prospects.

Actually a team that makes a play for Stanton needs a third thing: the qualities of aggressiveness, boldness, large onions. It is the kind of team that knows what it wants … and will go get it. It is a team that will not be denied in the desire to land its trade target. It is a team that will not allow themselves to finish second or third in trade bidding.  It is a team that refuses to count dimes and dollar bills and will not tremble when it comes time to go all in and pay up.

The Cardinals have the money. They have the prospects. They have two of the necessary elements.

I just don’t know if the Cardinals have the third characteristic: the guts, the nerve, to go get Stanton …. recognizing that the cost of securing this kind of rare talent will be high, and it will carry risk. But it’s about damn time that this team stop finishing second or third every time it cautiously walks into the market to make a transaction only to be scared off by the price tag.

Thanks for reading …

–Bernie

More: Free-Agent Eric Hosmer, Potential Cardinal: Perception vs. Reality

  • Bart Sinnett

    Mo don’t have the onions has you put it Bernie…The Cards will lose out again to another big player ( AKA the SFGiants ).

  • rightthinker4

    The Cardinals have the money and the players to get Stanton. The only reason the Cardinals don’t get Stanton is, if Stanton flat out refuses to accept a trade to St. Louis.

    • JDinSTL

      More likely that the Cardinals aren’t serious about acquiring him – which they clearly are not.

  • Jacob Lewis

    Verlander also played in the 2012 World Series!

    • John W

      Yep and he is 0-4 over 27 innings in 3 World Series , but he got his ring !

      • Lee Reese

        BS Stat! Was easily the Best pitcher in this WS, Gave up 3 cheap runs in game 2!

        • Big T

          Without his performance in the first round they don’t go to the WS. Spot on lee! He could come be an ace here any day as far as I am concerned. Fans sure would get prettier

  • CatfishRivers

    But the Cardinals locked in Piscotty with a big contract. He’s supposed to be the “future”..

    • JohnS

      Who?

    • M W

      They have to find a way to unload him.

    • Rich Rauch

      He could bounce back big time in 2018. Let’s hope so.

  • Christopher Toth

    Yes and no. The Angels had the onions to sign Pujols but so far, they got the name and not the results for their $225MM or so.

    Granted, Stanton is 3 years younger than Pujols was but to fixate on one player who ultimately has the final say whether he’s accepts a trade or not is unrealistic.

    Lost in this whole discussion of those who blame DeWitt more than Matheny is how readily they are willing to trade away home grown or acquired prospects that many MLB experts note has the Cards best positioned to land Stanton talent wise.

    It isn’t the trading of prospects that bothers me, it is that many on this site hypocritcally ignore that DeWitt’s home grown approach has been effective even if it has created a log jam in the outfield.

    Were it not, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And DeWitt did so without tanking.

    • JohnS

      Won’t matter for the Cards how many prospects (suspects) they have if they don’t have the onions to trade them for a real difference maker. In related moves, the Cards’ farm system is not even rated in the top ten….so maybe their prospects that you are braggin’ on so heavily aren’t so hot anyway!

      • Big T

        MLB Pipeline has 6 Cardinal prospects in the top 100 with four in the top fifty. This does not include DeJong, Weaver, or Pham so I think it is fair to say the farm where all these come from is stocked. (Mercado, Garcia and Perez all close.) More importantly lots of good cost controlled pitching in the farm – Hicks, Alcantra, Flaherty, Hudson, Gomber… Pitching prospect bring the best return. I guess you get the point.

        • Christopher Toth

          Exactly.

      • Christopher Toth

        JohnS, if you believe the bulk of MLB analysts, those prospects are hotter than most other teams and the consensus seems to be the Marlins think so as well rendering what you or me think irrelevant.

        Lastly, sometimes it takes bigger oinions to say no. DeWitt did and Pujols didn’t in saying yes to the Angels for a deal only marginally better when you factor in much higher taxes and cost of living in LA for 81 home games.

    • ken

      let’s hear it for angel nuts.

    • Big T

      Chris – All good points! I concur and offer my insight to this some what frustrating decision to a fan base that is just over eager to here one way or the other.

      Cardinal Way has always been about drafting, developing, and deploying talent through the farm. No organization has been more consistent in doing so. Look at how many professional players they have developed and not just the ones who only wear the birds on the bat. there is a reason we have had ten straight winning seasons.

      1) These type of mega deals do not happen quick! Most of this is just “feeling out the market”. Stanton has never been publicly quoted as saying what he wants one way or the other.
      2) Cards have already made an offer and I am sure they are willing to beat anyone else’s offer because of the unique position our home grown talent of outfielders and pitching prospects affords us.
      3) Marlins and Stanton’s agent want to present image here and in SF that Stanton is going to the other. It drives the price and return up. Good business! Mo not offering the moon right away is a smart decision. I am sure there will be a final call for the last price on Stanton to both teams.
      4) SF really does not have the $$$ space for his contract so they would have to have the Marlins take on some of this cost which defeats their reason to trade him. See baseballreference.com and check out their payroll on the books already for the next three years!!
      5) Even after we get him we will have the pieces to trade for another starter of middle reliever and/or closer. Perhaps FA on the closer or raise him in house. Mid year trade??
      6) Baseball will live if he chooses elsewhere to play. Sky did not fall after Heyward, Pujols, or Price did not sign here (now that gives you something to be thankful for.)
      7) Everyone should just relax let this play out and enjoy their Turkey. Happy Thanksgiving!!

      • Christopher Toth

        Big T, hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving. Agree with all your points. Well put.

        Especially agree re: a deal of this size given the Marlins hold most of the aces will take time and that there is a ton more of leaks from each side headed our way via the media as the Marlins try to fake out whoever is going after Stanton to see if they can’t feed a litte higher on the hog and as those teams fake back.

        Never say never but I highly suspect this will happen incremental steps if it is ultimately pulled off.

        Marlins are in no rush and neither is Stanton.

        The team will only feel pressure if and when players they are targeting to trade for from other teams get pulled back to make another deal and Stanton will only feel pressure as time goes by and he has to choose between staying on a rebuild (I’d find it hard to believe he find teams interested in a 2 year potential rental next year if he stays a Marlin so if he isn’t moved this winter, he’s there for the duration of his contract) or agreeing along the same lines that Verander did be it Boston or St. Louis or X team.

        • Big T

          Absolutely. This is a fragile situation but one that fortunately the Cards hold the pitching prospects that the Marlins desire most. They can also take on more salary than other suitors.

          SF talent pool is not deep in the farm. Beede is their best pitcher to offer and he had a 4+ ERA. Boston is just as bad on the competitive tax base as LA and SF. But those teams don’t care which concerns me.Other than that i would say we are certainly best suited to take this one.

          My guess is this wraps up by the end of the winter meetings 12/09-12/13 or it goes after JD Martinez signs. I agree that Stanton holds the Cards but the game will shift as others move and no longer wait.

          I just hope and believe Mr. Dewitt will not give up too much to make this a bad value trade because of “fake news” we are going to see continuing in the media.

          Your right that if Stanton/Marlins stop a deal this year his value actually decreases: 2 year rental and next years FA class. Have a great day I got to go run some turkey off.

          • Christopher Toth

            Simply put. Agree. Best.

    • Realist50

      Good points Christopher, and I found this column by Bernie to be an overall poor effort. Bernie’s conclusion reads more like something from one of the Post-Dispatch’s worse columnists such as Jose de Jesus Ortiz or Ben Frederickson. (To be clear, I think that Derrick Goold is overall pretty good.) Bernie is too focused on one basic profile for an upgrade (middle of the order bat) and one particular player (Stanton). Maybe ESPN likes for Bernie to drive clicks and listenership with poorly reasoned hot takes, but it’s disappointing that he’s peddling dubious arguments and making his audience dumber.

      There seems to be something of a consensus among MLB front offices that Stanton’s remaining contract (10 years, $295 million, with a player opt out after 2020) is pretty close to what he’d get as a free agent. It’s therefore, Bernie’s claims to the contrary, a big overpay to both take on that contract and give up lots of prospect value for Stanton. That’s not to say it’s crazy to give up something for Stanton, but it’s pretty clearly a huge overpay to take on all of his contract for a trade package that starts with Reyes and builds from there or includes multiple players from the Weaver, Kelly, Flaherty, Alcantara tier of the Cardinals’ farm system.

      There are always other ways to upgrade a team. For example, the Cardinals could instead trade a big prospect package for someone such as Yelich or Chris Archer, and then use the roughly $20 million per year in payroll difference for Yelich or Archer vs. Stanton to spend on other upgrades, either in this year’s free agent class or pursuing a player such as Donaldson or Machado next offseason.

      Looking at Yelich in particular, there’s probably something like a 20% to 40% chance that he provides more production than Stanton over the next three years, as measured by WAR. Over the past three seasons, for example, Stanton has a fairly narrow lead over Yelich by Fangraphs WAR (12.6 vs. 11.4). Yelich is approximately two years younger than Stanton, with a more team favorable contract. Yelich also has a better track record of health than Stanton, which is part of the reason that Yelich historically is so close to Stanton in value.

      And if a team gets a Stanton who more often looks like 2016 Stanton (1.8 WAR in 470 PA’s, with missed time due to groin and side injuries) than 2017 Stanton (6.9 WAR in a full season), then it’s definitely going to be paying Stanton his full remaining contract because he won’t be able to get a bigger contract by opting out after 2020.

      • Christopher Toth

        Agree. There is another inherent problem when a team has just one major superstar. Players tend to subconsciously wait for them to save the day. For a superstar to be productive as a hitter, you usually need a strong near superstar player in front or back of him in the lineup. If not, you just pitch around him.

  • JeremyR

    It’s actually all about money. Prospects come into play when it comes to how much of the contract Miami will be willing to pay.

    And really, that’s the hangup from the Cardinals point of view. Because DeWitt is so cheap, they can either take on Stanton’s contract and not fix the other holes in the roster or try to fix all the holes with 2nd rate free agents. They can’t do both and frankly, they can’t turn this into a WS team with what DeWitt is willing to spend. The only hope of that ever happening is every pitching prospect reaching his full potential.

    Quoting the bit about the Cardinals having the most wins since 2000 is misleading, because for most of that time the Cardinals had one of the greatest hitters in baseball history to build around. Now they don’t.

    And their philosophy is different. They try to field an average team and hope they get lucky with great young starters to push them beyond average. It’s sorta worked with CMart (though he’s never going to be a Cy Young winner) but the jury is out on Weaver, Reyes, Flaherty, etc.

    In the Pujols days, they used a more Cubs like model – get all star position players and fill the pitching in with good guys and hope they have career games. Sometimes they did.

    • M W

      You are acting like how teams were assembled in 2004 is still the same as it is now. Teams are holding on to their players. Trades are much more difficult to pull off.

      And you have no clue what DeWitt is willing to spend. None of us do. Let’s see how this offseason plays out.

  • James Berry

    I’m thinking there’s only one way the Cards get Stanton. They have to see to it that they make the Marlins eat the least amount and offer the best prospects. The Marlins then have to go to Stanton and inform him that St. Louis is, if he wants to be traded, his only option. If Stanton then calls the Marlins FO’s bluff, then the Marlins inform him that they will piecemeal their other assets on the roster to 1) get them down to their desired payroll and 2) accumulate the prospects they want going forward.

    I don’t want Stanton that way because he’ll be bitter and a huge clubhouse distraction. Plus, i’ve wanted our FO to take a different route all along.

  • LawrenceKScardsfan

    You really can’t make a better case than the one Bernie has made here.

    And he’s exactly right.

    I would consider Stanton a transformative player. It’s interesting that Bernie says that Stanton would be the best RFer “in a long time.” I’d say since Stan the Man (and that’s with a tip of the hat to Cepeda). Add him to a couple of quality relievers/closers in the bullpen and CC Sabathia in the rotation and WHOA… Cubs won’t have to look in the rear view mirror anymore. They’ll be looking in the lane nest to them or perhaps staring at taillights.

    Let’s get er done….

    • Lee Reese

      Cubs looking in the taillights? Drink more Scotch Licqeur Head!

      • LawrenceKScardsfan

        Yeah… like it’s never happened before. LOL!!!

    • James Berry

      I can’t understand the praise and want fans have for Sabathia. 8 years ago i understood it, but not now.

      • LawrenceKScardsfan

        Just a stop gap for me. I recommended the same for Lackey – two years – we resign him for two years and no more. With Sabathia, one year. I’d like to give Reyes a chance to heal up before putting him in the rotation. Then Sabathia is around if Wacha or Waino falters later in the season.

        • W Mahan

          “…if Waino falters LATER in the year…” HA, I won’t forget what Wainwright HAS DONE for the organization in the past. But right now I wouldn’t trust him to get out of the 2nd inning against a girl’s softball team. Later in the year? You are an optimist…I’ll give you that.

          • LawrenceKScardsfan

            You could be right. Waino might end up being released next year if he doesn’t rebound. At the very least, he might end up in his last year as a mop-up guy out of the bullpen…. a disappointing end to his career. You have to wonder what it would’ve been like with a healthy Waino throughout his career. Sad….

    • M W

      I think the issue here is that we have a Front Office that does not appear capable of getting deals like this done. That’s why I don’t think we will get him.

      • LawrenceKScardsfan

        You may be right. Over the last two years they teased and talked a good game and then left the Cardinal faithful high and dry. Fowler was never capable of making the team a WS contender on his own, but that’s how the Cardinal front office positioned it for the fans. Hopefully, they’ll grab their sack and land someone who could turn us into WS champions. We’ll see.

        Happy Thanksgiving!

    • geoff

      I don’t consider the NBA to be a major professional sport. The NFL deserves to be in the situation they are in in LA and throughout their sport actually. I would rather watch hockey than NBA anytime and college basketball, is evidently a professional sport that offers a much more interesting product. Baseball has always been my favorite to play and watch, but I am becoming less and less a fan as the “new age” of homers walks and strikeouts, launch angles and WAR , and computer “al gore rhythms” do not good baseball make. I don’t know that I can endure watching another year of sloppy baseball being played by the Cardinals. I am not sure if Stanton is the answer, or Osuna, or Gordon, or Yelich… heck I keep seeing all of the comment section experts talking like these are the best of the best. The only question I have is “If they are so great , why haven’t the Marlins been winning?” I know, pitching… well I’m not sure that the Cardinals’ pitching is all that great going into next year. The expected rotation is Martinez, some really young guys and an old guy. They could turn out to be great and they could struggle. The Cards passed on the best free agent pitcher this off-season when they let Lynn walk away, and now the speculation about who they can pick up is rampant . Mo has effectively blocked his young outfield prospects with questionable contracts to Piscotty and Fowler( long no trade deal) they have seven hundred second basemen with Wong (a drama queen) evidently the best of the bunch. They have a .250 hitting 25 home run, slow afoot guy who can only hit from the lead-off spot, a shortstop going into his second year who I think is a good young player who will get better wherever they put him, at third they have a streaky Gyorko, who is not exactly the best clutch hitter, and they have Molina who has started turning his head behind the plate because he just doesn’t want to take any more foul balls of his mask ( I hope he adds a side flap because if he takes one behind that exposed ear he could get killed) . They have Pham who plays the game the way the Cardinals have always played the game. Add to that dismal picture a manager who is not what I would call a great tactician, a GM who is nothing mire than a lackey, and Mo who thinks he is the smartest guy in the room who has missed on his evaluation of sustainable talent since LaRussa took his knowledge of the game and left town, after being made to feel unwelcome because he doesn’t buy in to the saber metrics craze, and an owner who seems to have turned his interest more toward being a real-estate mogul than being a baseball man. Add to that you have old farts like me whining because we don’t like the “new age” style of baseball. I don’t understand all of the Stanton talk without just asking Stanton if he wants to come to St Louis. If he does…great he would be a wonderful addition, if not…turn the page and try to clear out some of the mistakes and bring up the cherished prospects. As it stands right now the fans, the media, and possibly Cardinals’ management are being held hostage by their own desire to get Stanton here. I hope you and yours have a great holiday weekend.

      • W Mahan

        Absolutely the most reasoned comment this year. I could not agree more on virtually every point you made. Especially about knowing IF Stanton even wants to play in STL, the Cards passing on Lynn, a dismal manager, and a worse GM. All right on point. Well done and Happy Thanksgiving.

        • geoff

          I didn’t say the manager is dismal, I said the picture I painted was dismal. I think Matheny has some great attributes. His integrity is NOT questionable, no matter what line of bullshit Bernie tries to push out because he has some serious hate for Mike as a man. I don’t think Mike is the best tactician, he makes me scratch my head quite a lot, and it looks like he is trying to balance just getting on a bunch of fragile millennials and trying to cajole them into growing some balls to put in their sacks. I don’t think we see as many problems managing the latin players as we do with the Americans because they haven’t been coddled and spoiled. Somehow, a whole generation of Americans has been raised to be helpless pansies who find anything but instant gratification unacceptable, and that just happens to be the demographic that baseball is trying to attract right now. Because of that, we see baseball being taken over by the guys who pore over statistics, because they mistakenly think that the statistics create the game rather than the game creating the statistics.

          • Mark Lee Arbogast

            Bernie hates everybody, especially anybody that disagrees with him.

      • LawrenceKScardsfan

        You too Geoff – happy thanksgiving!

        Regards your comments, I too am unsure about the rotation. That’s why I want them to get a couple of quality relievers. Lynn wants a longer contract than the Cards want to give him so he’ll land somewhere else. Sabaitha would likely sign a 2-year deal and quite possibly transition from starter to bullpen as the Cardinals gain more confidence in the young arms. For example, Reyes coming off of TJ will need time to build arm strength before taking a slot in the rotation. CC also offers some insurance should Waino or Wacha collapse. That’s my talking points in a nutshell.

        • geoff

          Sabathia would be a great addition. A lefty starter is something the Cards have needed for a while.

      • James Berry

        I’ll agree with a lot of your assessment, but “The Cards passed on the best free agent pitcher this off-season when they let Lynn walk away” is just ludicrous. While the crop of FA starting pitchers this off season is lacking quality, Lynn is a 3(at best) and wants to be paid like a 2. He may get it, but whoever pays him like that will regret it. 1 pitch pitchers as starters don’t age well and he’s never been very willing, or able, to develop secondary pitches.

        Happy Turkey Day!

        • geoff

          In response to your opinion of Lynn and all one pitch pitchers I offer one word to support my argument…BartoloColon. I hope you and yours have a wonderful Thanksgiving. It is fun arguing with you, you make great points. I happen to be right about Lynn, though.

          • James Berry

            Colon is an odd duck for several reasons. When he was young, he actually had good off speed stuff, but his control was suspect. He was suspended for PEDs, but fans and media and players love him. Now, after numerous shoulder and elbow problems, he basically became a fastball only pitcher. He won a CY with his off speed stuff included. Not sure he is a good Lynn comparison.

            And, you are wrong. Arietta & Darvish are both better FA starters, but i don’t want them either.

          • geoff

            I am swayed toward Lynn because I have seen more of him. I see Arietta as fading and Darvish as a Shields type who is not great under pressure. Lynn is the horse and they need a horse.

  • It’s pretty doggone clear that while the Cardinals want Stanton, for crissakes he doesn’t want us. It’s nothing personal. Stanton doesn’t want to be with ANY team in the midwest, including the Cubs. Maybe he doesn’t like the cold weather during the winter. Multi-millionaires and MVP’S who hit 59 hr’s, often times have the ability to pick and choose.

    There is however a definite ironic quality to all of this. For once and nearly incredulously, DeWitt actually appears willing to spend the cash. And wouldn’t you just know it, on this occasion Stanton won’t take it. While the drum beat/death march goes on for this org. They’re not only often incompetent, but they also have the misfortune of being unlucky.

    People need to quit wasting time, beating the tired Stanton story into the ground. It only leads to frustration, something we’ve had plenty of with the Cardinals in recent seasons. Stanton comes to St. Louis, the same day Kate Upton leaves Justin Verlander for me. Give it a rest.

    • Jodie

      Google is paying 97$ per hour,with weekly payouts.You can also avail this.
      On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $11752 this last four weeks..with-out any doubt it’s the most-comfortable job I have ever done .. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it GoogleNetJobsProWorkFromHome…..

  • Lee Reese

    3 – 4 in WS since 1970, Living in the Past as Usual Miklasz!!

    • M W

      What does this mean? You are somehow trying to say going to 7 WS in 47 years is bad??

  • tominco

    Personally, I’m getting sick of Stanton. He is not the magic to get a World Series title. During his career, every team that has made the playoffs has done it without Stanton. If he can’t say at this point that he will waive his contract and be thrilled to play in St Louis, or San Francisco or wherever, then I don’t want him on my team. Stop wasting time with him and go after other players. Honestly, we need much more than one big bat anyway.

  • Rich Rauch

    Yes, the Cardinals have the money and the prospects. As for the aggressiveness/boldness/onions to go for it all, … If they had any of that, the Catch 22 experiment would be over. Instead, ownership “sent a message” to their chosen one, the Beloved Leader of Men, while giving him yet another chance to prove he might someday be capable of managing in the majors. And, so long as we’re buying tickets at 3+ million per season, why not? (It’s a business.™)

  • Derryl Moore

    I believe Hack Wilson set the RBI record at 180. How close would Stanton come to that, or break it, if he were hitting behind Carpenter and Fowler in front of Gyoko or Grychuk, etc?

    • James Berry

      Well, since Carpenter is a statue and if Gyorko or Grichuk hit behind him, not very close. Carpenter hasn’t the speed or base running skills to score from 1st except on a homer and Stanton would get a lot of IBBs with either of those 2 behind him.

  • Jim Hoffman

    Get it done? So whatever Miami wants we give them? Do you give up Reyes? Just get it don’t is a silly statement if you don’t know what’s being asked for. Now, if it turns out the Cards refuse to take on enough salary (as they can take it all on and as we move forward it won’t be SUCH a bad deal) I’ll be unhappy and feel they failed. If it comes out they wanted Reyes involved, I’ll be glad they missed out and move on

    • Big T

      Agreed. Reyes is a generational talent. No way I give him up with that 3 year opt out around. Even if not there I probably would not.